Podcast 3: The Process- Insight into the College Admissions Process

(This audio is from The Process originally aired on SiriusXM 111)

• Eric Furda- Dean of Wharton School of Business & co-host Eileen Cunningham Feikens- Director of College Counseling at the Dwight-Englewood School & guest Elizabeth King- President of Elizabeth King Coaching/Written books on outsmarting the SAT and acing the ACT & guest Kelly Harrington- Director of College Counseling at the University Prep School in Seattle
• In Mid-Feb, UPenn providing a MOOC (Massive open online course) on Coursera called “How to Apply for College” for grades 4-12
• Questions: What types of conversations would high school students be having at this time? What conversations are you having with your kids who are in college?
  • Feikens: With my kids, my sophomore son is preoccupied with internships/employment and also with housing. And my junior daughter is studying abroad
    • A shift in thinking seen from what am I going to learn in college to how will I apply what I learn to the real life
    • Study abroad questions – What opportunities will be available in college for me to study abroad?
• So much of the process is about getting in. Rolling deadlines still going on- How do I make that final shape of the list for seniors?
  • Feikens: Definitely important to notice the prevalence of early admissions/decisions
    • Compared to 20 years ago, students now are strategizing to have a first choice school and to see if an early decision/early action is going to help them achieve that.
  • Furda: What about those students that are deferred from these early decision/action? For Penn, we ask for an update.
    • Feikens: But what are you looking for in that update? That’s what students want to now.
  • Feikens: What percentage of ED where accepted, deferred, denied? And of the deferred, what are their chances in the regular pool?
  • Furda: Penn has 6000 ED pool and a larger EA pool
    • 1300 admitted under ED, 1200 deferred, rest of them denied for Penn
    • Even for the seniors, still time post early responses to round out their list
  • Feikens: Not a big chance in false hope à Not a fan of schools that defer all of those that they don’t accept
• Question from caller: Daughter admitted for Spring semester (not Fall). What are some of the best things for students to do in Fall if they are admitted in Spring?
  • Furda: Make sure to ask the school what the orientation for spring is going to look like? What does the advising look like? How many students are being admitted in the Spring?
  • Feikens: Maybe take some community college classes to stay in school or look for an internship or job to get some experience or earn some money
    • Many students take a semester off à Fluidity within the college schedule so your daughter will not be behind
• Question from caller: Is it necessary for my student to take the ACT with writing if the schools she’s applying to don’t require the writing portion? Will it look bad in the eyes of the admission officers?
  • Furda: Your student should have confidence in the written materials à If a school says they don’t require them, then they will have a pathway for students who have not taken that writing test
  • Feikens: It’s about shaping her list and double-checking that NONE of them à doesn’t want to be scrambling in the last minute
    • It will not be held against her- while testing is important, there is also an importance in transcripts and other parts of the application
•  How are you feeling the overall conversations/questions with your clients?
  • King: I’m hearing a lot of concerns from students that have high GPAs but their initial test scores are not reflecting them in that same matching principle
    • Been creating a lot of anxiety
  • Feikens: There have been so many universities and colleges that have become more flexible with tests required
    • Important to remember that testing is only one facet of the application
  • King: Only three core reasons a student may struggle on a test or even on a specific question. Framework for a specific question:
    • You forgot either the exact fact or idea being tested
      • Grammar rule or algebra function
    • It may be the test question was phrased that twisted it
      • Difference in the way the question is twisted results in the differences between the ACT and SAT
    • Human Error
      • Either your anxiety or the speed at which you’re moving that tripped you up
        • What needs to be determined: Is it that you actually don’t know the material? Is it the phrasing that is messing up how you read it? Or is it anxiety?
  • Kelly: As families start this process, they often turn to media. What aspect of college application process should the media be covering that they haven’t?
  • Furda: The media tends to go to the extreme- students that don’t get in anywhere and is heartbroken or the few students that gets into all schools
    • Average admit rate- somewhere over 60%
    • The media won’t cover those students who diligently put together their college list, of which they’ll get into some and not others
  • Feikens: There also isn’t much focus on schools other than the elite few. I think it would be helpful for the media to highlight the large state schools as well. Thoughts?
  • Feikens: Is there a lot of focus on outcome? Outcome in terms of translation to jobs from school- Students sometimes struggle to finance college without taking out massive debts and then the jobs they get in the end don’t help them pay those loans back easy
  • Feikens: What does the college admission mean to the parents vs how a student approaches this process?
  • Furda: Parents, families, and students can shape the subjective part of the process, not necessarily the objective data- statistics of the college
    • Advice: Parents write down 5 or 6 words or sentences about what they want their student’s college experience to be and have the student do the same thing à Then have a conversation to see how they align
  • Kelly: Where does the pressure for colleges to decrease their admission rates come from? Why?
  • Furda: From ‘87 to 91, 6000 applications were enough to fill the class. Now, this past year we received 40,000 applications and the class size has not changed
    • The breadth of the pool of applicants has grown- nationally and internationally
  • Kelly: Parents need to understand that college decisions should not change how much they love their students- their students will succeed
    • Feikens: Students also need to not take a college decision as a way to judge their capabilities
  • Colleges that change lives by Lauren Pope à highlights those “hidden gem” schools
• Question from caller: I’m an entrepreneur. I have a lot of experience in my field and would like to upgrade my education but I feel like I am falling behind competing with all these new students with the right paperwork. Thoughts?
  • Furda: Opportunities with executive education programs where really what they are looking at is what you are doing as a professional
    • Not a full curriculum or degree but a certificate
  • Feikens: Also a big emphasis on experiential learning- ex internships
    • Valid whether you are a college student or not
• Kelly: Definitely a lot of focus on outcome- first question for students when looking at college is what are the career services looking at?
  • Furda: First take a look at what really interests you and what the school has to offer. Then take a look at the price tag/financial aid and statistics à Helps create a much more rounded list

About the Author

Tim Ranzetta

Tim's saving habits started at seven when a neighbor with a broken hip gave him a dog walking job. Her recovery, which took almost a year, resulted in Tim getting to know the bank tellers quite well (and accumulating a savings account balance of over $300!). His recent entrepreneurial adventures have included driving a shredding truck, analyzing executive compensation packages for Fortune 500 companies and helping families make better college financing decisions. After volunteering in 2010 to create and teach a personal finance program at Eastside College Prep in East Palo Alto, Tim saw firsthand the impact of an engaging and activity-based curriculum, which inspired him to start a new non-profit, Next Gen Personal Finance.